d20 rules details: Skill

[memnus]

Reference: Multiclass Characters (SRD)

This seems to imply that once a skill is a class skill for a character, the player can sink points into that skill at any level, regardless of the class taken. In other words, a player aiming for wizard could make a first-level rogue (conveniently getting a few more weapons, a little sneak attack, and a Reflex save bonus) then proceed to level exclusively in wizard, but have actual useful places to put all those skill points. The example in the 3.5 PhB (page 59, second column, top paragraph, for those following along at home) seems to agree with this.

Thoughts? While it's certainly a lot less bookkeeping than 3.0's version, the potential for abues is obvious, as noted; taking a first level of Bard or Rogue becomes a distinct advantage for any character with a high INT or otherwise plentiful skill points.

The next puzzle: What's the fewest number of SRD classes one could take (excluding psionic classes, please) to get ALL skills as class skills? I'm seeing Bard/Ranger/Rogue; any other combinations?

EDIT: Supplemental question: familiars and Polymorph, hit points thereof. Fleck (57 hp, 11 HD) turns his familiar (28 hp (half master's total), 10 CON) into a hydra (20 CON). Does the familiar gain 55 hit points for the CON gain? What if Fleck polymorphs himself instead, gaining 33 hit points; does the familiar gain 17 even if not included in the spell? Should the familiar's hit points be calculated without the master's CON bonus, and given its own independently?

References: Familiars, Polymorph

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Comments

[tortoise.livejournal.com]

This was true for cross-class skills in 3E as well (the only difference is that it works with exclusive skills in 3.5E). The only exclusive skill that it seems potentially unbalanced for is UMD, and probably only for non-spellcasters (in 3E, you would have been able to do horrible things with Tenser's Transformation, but I'm pretty sure that got fixed in 3.5E).

There are a bunch of other 3-class combinations that do what you want which involve expert, human paragon, or both. These may be overly trivial...

I would take the SRD wording to imply that familiars can't gain HP from polymorphing (since their hit points are explicitly independent of hit dice, why should they depend on Constitution?). By the same token, they should gain hit points from their master polymorphing, just as they would if their master did anything else that changed his Con.

[(Anonymous)]

The *maximum* skill ranks allowed for the class is calculated as if it were in class. The cost to advance the skills is the same, however.

If it's an exclusive skill, then only the classes with the exclusive skill count (not sure if you can pump cross-class).

So, let us take 1 level of rogue and then one level of wizard.

Let us assume that at first level, the rogue takes 4 points of spot. Then, next level, the character can increase spot to 5, but it requires 2 skill points to do so. This is how it worked in 3E also.

One might argue that the delay of one level of spells is not worth the usefulness of the skill allotment, as spells can often duplicate the effects of skills.

[squirrelloid.livejournal.com]

Yes, this post is right.

He's also right in that losing a level of spellcasting is never worth it unless you get something amazing. (I would argue Fatespinner 5 is sufficiently amazing, i think it might be the only thing i'd argue for).

I prefer to play without in/out of class skills, because i think theyre silly. Thats actually how i read it in 3e too, and really think that interpretation is superior for sense reasons (also, some of the class skill lists have obvious holes, like Fighters not having bluff or sense motive despite combat uses, and not having spot or listen, which really everyone should have). Note 3.5 removes exclusive skills entirely, they don't exist anymore (a change i agree with).

To get all the skills with in-class max ranks, rogue + expert is probably sufficient, and expert is totally SRD (DMG, NPC class. Perfectly cromulent, heck, i've taken it).